Posts
I was going to respond to a comment made about my Warner HOF credentials in the comment section, but figured you should all get a chance to read it, even those who aren't regular commenters.
Here is the original comment:
"In no disrespect to Kurt Warner's talent (ok maybe a little), is he not partially just a product of his system? Look at Roethlisberger's stats for example. Nothing amazing. But I'd take him as my QB any day over Warner.
And your stats reveal fundamental flaws. Are Chad Pennington and Tony Romo HOFers? No!
Remember when Kurt Warner was Eli Manning's backup? In the prime of his career!
I'm just saying that the Cards had the worst running offense in the league and Warner had Fitzgerald and Boldin to throw to. And don't even get me started on his targets in St. Louis.
I'm not saying Warner is bad. But HOFer? Your credentials are too weak."
...and my response:
While I agree with you that taken on their own, some of those statistics mentioned are not overwhelming, the point is the combination, or depth of his stats is what makes the argument.
When you combine his passing numbers, with his passing accuracy and his two MVP's, three Super Bowl appearances, one win and MVP and his longevity, I think the argument speaks for itself.
If you want to say he is a product of a system, that may be a fair point. But then look at a guy like Bob Griese. He is in the hall essentially for having played on one of the best teams in the history of the NFL, the early 70's Dolphins.
Other than Griese's championships, the numbers he put up were mediocre. You can't fault a player for the team he is on, that's why Dan Marino is still considered one of the greatest to play to position despite having never won a SB. And don't tell me the fact Joe Montana, Jim Kelly and Troy Aikman played on some great teams should detract from what they did.
If you add onto all of this Warner's story as far as how he made it to the NFL and his legacy for being one of the more generous and philanthropic players in the game, there really isn't much of an argument.
Not in my head, at least.
Keep the comments coming. I post these blogs to get the brain-juices flowing and I love the debates they create.
Monday, February 2, 2009
Happy Groundhog Day
So in honour of the big day, I figured I'd revisit (get it...get it?) one of my points from last night's quick hits post.
The Hall of Fame credentials of Kurt Warner.
Allow me to make the argument.
Warner, at age 37 has played in three Super Bowls, spread over 9 years with two teams, winning one. He also captured the Super Bowl MVP in Super Bowl 34.
Now, I could stop there and for some people that would be enough of a credential maybe not for a first ballot entry, but an eventual bronze bust. But nay, we shall continue.
Warner won two NFL MVP awards in 1999 and 2001, becoming only one of only a handful of people to win more than one.
Ok, you say, so he had a few good years. What have you done for me lately, right?
Well, this season he was very much in contention - and for most of the season, in fact, was the lead horse - for this year's MVP award. Even after slowing down for the last few weeks of the year, he finished with over 4,500 yards, 30 touchdowns, a passer rating of 96.9 while completing over 67% of his passes. At one point in the season he was actually on pace for over 5,000 yards. All this from a 37 year old who was slotted in as the backup to young stud Matt Leinart when training camp began.
Ok, you say, so he had one final hurrah in the twilight of his career. A HOF'er does not that make.
Well, in terms of career stats, here's how he shakes up among the best:
Warner's career passer rating of 93.8 ranks fourth all-time, behind only Steve Young, Peyton Manning and Tony Romo.
Warner's career completion percentage of 65.7 is second all-time behind only Chad Pennington.
His 261.2 passing yards per game is the highest average for any QB with at least 100 games played.
He also owns the following records:
Most yards passing in career Super Bowls; T-1 most single-season playoff touchdowns; The top three individual Super Bowl passing yard records belong to him and he is the only QB to throw for 400+ yards in the big game; Most games with a perfect passer rating; most consecutive games with 300+ yards passing....
I may have missed one or two in there, but you get the point.
Throughout his career with the Rams and the greatest show on turf, to becoming a backup in NY, all the way back to stardom with the Cardinals, Warner has been an accurate, effective passer at historic levels.
He was never as flashy as Brett Favre, never as handsome as Joe Montana, never as electric as Michael Vic.....actually, forget that last comparison.
Warner, though, has numbers that compare favourably to any QB in the game right now (Save maybe for Tom Brady and Peyton Manning) and many QB's even in the hall already.
Let's take a quick sampling of a few guys who are in already.
Terry Bradshaw:
Career comp. rate: 51.9
Career passer rating: 70.9
Most TD's in a season: 28
Yards/game: 166.6
Joe Namath:
Career comp. rate: 50.1
Career passer rating: 65.5
Most TD's in a season: 26
Yards/game: 197.6
and for a refresher...
Kurt Warner:
Career comp. rate: 65.4
Career passer rating: 93.8
Most TD's in a season: 41
Yards/game: 261.2
So there you have it, his numbers not only compare to those two all-time greats, but pretty much blow them out of the water. And you can tell me about how it's a different game today and there's more passing than ever and you're probably right. But for Warner to put up his kind of numbers for as long as he has is unbelievably impressive on a level of historic proportions.
Whether or not he retires after this season (he is a free agent and has already said he will think very hard about coming back again) Kurt Warner has earned a place in the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton.
Now it's just up to the voters to decide....
The Hall of Fame credentials of Kurt Warner.
Allow me to make the argument.
Warner, at age 37 has played in three Super Bowls, spread over 9 years with two teams, winning one. He also captured the Super Bowl MVP in Super Bowl 34.
Now, I could stop there and for some people that would be enough of a credential maybe not for a first ballot entry, but an eventual bronze bust. But nay, we shall continue.
Warner won two NFL MVP awards in 1999 and 2001, becoming only one of only a handful of people to win more than one.
Ok, you say, so he had a few good years. What have you done for me lately, right?
Well, this season he was very much in contention - and for most of the season, in fact, was the lead horse - for this year's MVP award. Even after slowing down for the last few weeks of the year, he finished with over 4,500 yards, 30 touchdowns, a passer rating of 96.9 while completing over 67% of his passes. At one point in the season he was actually on pace for over 5,000 yards. All this from a 37 year old who was slotted in as the backup to young stud Matt Leinart when training camp began.
Ok, you say, so he had one final hurrah in the twilight of his career. A HOF'er does not that make.
Well, in terms of career stats, here's how he shakes up among the best:
Warner's career passer rating of 93.8 ranks fourth all-time, behind only Steve Young, Peyton Manning and Tony Romo.
Warner's career completion percentage of 65.7 is second all-time behind only Chad Pennington.
His 261.2 passing yards per game is the highest average for any QB with at least 100 games played.
He also owns the following records:
Most yards passing in career Super Bowls; T-1 most single-season playoff touchdowns; The top three individual Super Bowl passing yard records belong to him and he is the only QB to throw for 400+ yards in the big game; Most games with a perfect passer rating; most consecutive games with 300+ yards passing....
I may have missed one or two in there, but you get the point.
Throughout his career with the Rams and the greatest show on turf, to becoming a backup in NY, all the way back to stardom with the Cardinals, Warner has been an accurate, effective passer at historic levels.
He was never as flashy as Brett Favre, never as handsome as Joe Montana, never as electric as Michael Vic.....actually, forget that last comparison.
Warner, though, has numbers that compare favourably to any QB in the game right now (Save maybe for Tom Brady and Peyton Manning) and many QB's even in the hall already.
Let's take a quick sampling of a few guys who are in already.
Terry Bradshaw:
Career comp. rate: 51.9
Career passer rating: 70.9
Most TD's in a season: 28
Yards/game: 166.6
Joe Namath:
Career comp. rate: 50.1
Career passer rating: 65.5
Most TD's in a season: 26
Yards/game: 197.6
and for a refresher...
Kurt Warner:
Career comp. rate: 65.4
Career passer rating: 93.8
Most TD's in a season: 41
Yards/game: 261.2
So there you have it, his numbers not only compare to those two all-time greats, but pretty much blow them out of the water. And you can tell me about how it's a different game today and there's more passing than ever and you're probably right. But for Warner to put up his kind of numbers for as long as he has is unbelievably impressive on a level of historic proportions.
Whether or not he retires after this season (he is a free agent and has already said he will think very hard about coming back again) Kurt Warner has earned a place in the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton.
Now it's just up to the voters to decide....
Sunday, February 1, 2009
Some Quick Hit Super Bowl Reactions
-While I've heard many already talking about how this could be the best Super Bowl ever, that's probably overstating things a little bit. One need not even look so far back to find one that was more entertaining, last year in Arizona, when the Giants ACTUALLY stunned the world and beat the Patriots in the greatest upset in the history of the game.
-Despite not winning the game, Kurt Warner, who belongs in the Hall of Fame (that argument, in full, coming tomorrow) and Larry Fitzgerald had unbelievable second halves. Warner passed Joe Montana's record of 1142 yards in Super Bowls with his 377 passing yards.
(preview of the Warner HOF argument: Warner not only holds the record for most all-time Super Bowl passing yards, but all three of his SB appearances are now the top three for single-game passing in a SB.)
-Fitzgerald, who already passed Jerry Rice for most receiving yards in one post-season before this SB even kicked off, now owns the record for most receiving TD's in one playoff year with 7 after his two second half grabs in the big game.
-Though the number may have been off, my prediction of a 21-17 Steelers win did get the spread (4) exactly on the button
-The Canadian feed of the game got maybe three of the real Super Bowl commercials...the CRTC blows.
-Though I did end up having a good time, my Super Bowl party turned into more of a shmooze-fest than a football-frenzy. There was more buzz over Jennifer Hudson and Bruce Springsteen (who I actually thought was awesome) than in the last four minutes of the fourth quarter, that's just not right.
- Ben Roethlisberger, who now has two Super Bowls and has won more games than any other QB in their first five seasons, belongs in the Hall. It's one of those no-brainer things. A fourth quarter comeback drive was to win the game was what sealed it.
-James Harrison, the 2008 NFL Defensive Player of the Year, returned an interception 100 yards on the final play of the first half for a touchdown. It was the longest single play (special teams included) in SB history. (NB: In the Steelers last SB appearance, Willie Parker blasted a 75 yard TD run, which still is the longest running play in SB history).
-Mike Tomlin, head coach of the Steelers, is the youngest person to coach in and win a Super Bowl (at 36, a year younger than Warner). He is also only the second black head coach to win the game, both in the last three years after recently retired Tony Dungy won with the Colts in 2007. Tomlin got this job two years ago partially because of the Rooney Rule which states that any team with a coaching vacancy must interview at least one minority head coach before making a hire. This rule was named after Steelers owner Dan Rooney and his pioneering efforts to have this put in place for the 2003 season.
-Speaking of pioneering efforts, President Obama called Rooney and coach Mike Tomlin right after the game. When asked what the President said to him Tomlin responded, "to be honest, he congratulated me and after that I couldn't hear a word he said."
-I don't usually buy into John Madden's brand of play by play. A lot of 'that was amazing' and 'this is a huge third down for the team'. But he made one of the more insightful comments of the night when he pointed out that while Big Ben's numbers were far inferior to those of Kurt Warner, it's often not about the numbers you get, but when you get them.
Roethlisberger was not at or near the top of any QB categories this year and was pretty average all year long. The only thing he did spectacularly well was ya know...win games. Isn't that what you want in a quarterback?
-How many times did Roethlisberger scramble away from a blitz, sometimes multiple times on one play, only to find an open receiver down the field or even just to throw the ball away and avoid a sack. That's why he's so successful despite his relatively low offensive numbers. That, and being huuuge in the clutch.
-Santonio Holmes, Super Bowl 43 MVP (the first ever to come out of Ohio State), made the catch to win the game with under two minutes remaining and it will go down as one of the clutch plays in Super Bowl history. For Big Ben to elude pressure on the play, point to the corner of the endzone where he wanted Holmes to run and then throw the ball into TRIPLE COVERAGE, made it only more spectacular when Holmes reached up, grabbed the ball out of mid air and tapped both feet in the very corner of the endzone and still maintain control of the ball when he hit the ground.
That was a special play.
-It happened with 0:35 left on the clock, the exact time that was left when Plaxico Burress caught the Super Bowl winning TD against the Pats last season...the 'Santonio Holmes shooting himself in the leg' watch is officially on!
For my money, the Pats should still be favoured the win it all next season, pending the full return to health of Tom Brady.
For the same money...Adrian Peterson will be the number one pick is this year's upcoming fantasy football draft.
-Despite not winning the game, Kurt Warner, who belongs in the Hall of Fame (that argument, in full, coming tomorrow) and Larry Fitzgerald had unbelievable second halves. Warner passed Joe Montana's record of 1142 yards in Super Bowls with his 377 passing yards.
(preview of the Warner HOF argument: Warner not only holds the record for most all-time Super Bowl passing yards, but all three of his SB appearances are now the top three for single-game passing in a SB.)
-Fitzgerald, who already passed Jerry Rice for most receiving yards in one post-season before this SB even kicked off, now owns the record for most receiving TD's in one playoff year with 7 after his two second half grabs in the big game.
-Though the number may have been off, my prediction of a 21-17 Steelers win did get the spread (4) exactly on the button
-The Canadian feed of the game got maybe three of the real Super Bowl commercials...the CRTC blows.
-Though I did end up having a good time, my Super Bowl party turned into more of a shmooze-fest than a football-frenzy. There was more buzz over Jennifer Hudson and Bruce Springsteen (who I actually thought was awesome) than in the last four minutes of the fourth quarter, that's just not right.
- Ben Roethlisberger, who now has two Super Bowls and has won more games than any other QB in their first five seasons, belongs in the Hall. It's one of those no-brainer things. A fourth quarter comeback drive was to win the game was what sealed it.
-James Harrison, the 2008 NFL Defensive Player of the Year, returned an interception 100 yards on the final play of the first half for a touchdown. It was the longest single play (special teams included) in SB history. (NB: In the Steelers last SB appearance, Willie Parker blasted a 75 yard TD run, which still is the longest running play in SB history).
-Mike Tomlin, head coach of the Steelers, is the youngest person to coach in and win a Super Bowl (at 36, a year younger than Warner). He is also only the second black head coach to win the game, both in the last three years after recently retired Tony Dungy won with the Colts in 2007. Tomlin got this job two years ago partially because of the Rooney Rule which states that any team with a coaching vacancy must interview at least one minority head coach before making a hire. This rule was named after Steelers owner Dan Rooney and his pioneering efforts to have this put in place for the 2003 season.
-Speaking of pioneering efforts, President Obama called Rooney and coach Mike Tomlin right after the game. When asked what the President said to him Tomlin responded, "to be honest, he congratulated me and after that I couldn't hear a word he said."
-I don't usually buy into John Madden's brand of play by play. A lot of 'that was amazing' and 'this is a huge third down for the team'. But he made one of the more insightful comments of the night when he pointed out that while Big Ben's numbers were far inferior to those of Kurt Warner, it's often not about the numbers you get, but when you get them.
Roethlisberger was not at or near the top of any QB categories this year and was pretty average all year long. The only thing he did spectacularly well was ya know...win games. Isn't that what you want in a quarterback?
-How many times did Roethlisberger scramble away from a blitz, sometimes multiple times on one play, only to find an open receiver down the field or even just to throw the ball away and avoid a sack. That's why he's so successful despite his relatively low offensive numbers. That, and being huuuge in the clutch.
-Santonio Holmes, Super Bowl 43 MVP (the first ever to come out of Ohio State), made the catch to win the game with under two minutes remaining and it will go down as one of the clutch plays in Super Bowl history. For Big Ben to elude pressure on the play, point to the corner of the endzone where he wanted Holmes to run and then throw the ball into TRIPLE COVERAGE, made it only more spectacular when Holmes reached up, grabbed the ball out of mid air and tapped both feet in the very corner of the endzone and still maintain control of the ball when he hit the ground.
That was a special play.
-It happened with 0:35 left on the clock, the exact time that was left when Plaxico Burress caught the Super Bowl winning TD against the Pats last season...the 'Santonio Holmes shooting himself in the leg' watch is officially on!
For my money, the Pats should still be favoured the win it all next season, pending the full return to health of Tom Brady.
For the same money...Adrian Peterson will be the number one pick is this year's upcoming fantasy football draft.
14 Gold Medals, a baggilion dollars in sponsorships...sure, what do I have to lose?
No real reason for posting this other than it's just completely awesome...
the person below is reported to be none other than Michael Phelps.
Like I said...you can't make this shit up....
Looks like Phelps might be making a bid to get to Vancouver in 2010 for....purely...athletic...reasons....
the person below is reported to be none other than Michael Phelps.
Like I said...you can't make this shit up....Looks like Phelps might be making a bid to get to Vancouver in 2010 for....purely...athletic...reasons....
What do you mean you people...? What do yooouuu mean, you people?
Wondering what the deal is with the Uber Bowl tonight?
Heres a top 10 list of things you need to know about the big game:
10: The Pittsburgh Steelers are playing the Arizona Cardinals...I figure we should start with the basics.
9: The Steelers have won 5 Super Bowls, their sixth would be more than any other team in history. The Cardinals have never won a super bowl and last won a football championship in 1947 when the team was the Chicago Cardinals.
8: That is the second longest championship drought in the history of sports, only behind the 100+ year wait of the Chicago Cubs.
7: The Steelers are favoured to win by 7 points....Alex Ovechkin is -210 to collect more points in his game today than The Steelers Willie Parker will have receptions in the super bowl...you can't make this shit up.
6: The Steelers have the number 1 ranked defense in the league, maybe the best defense ever, the NFL's defensive MVP (James Harrison) and probably the best defensive hair (Troy Polamaulu).
5: The Cardinals Larry Fitzgerald already has more receiving yards (419) in his three playoff games this year than any single player has had in any playoff year in the history of the NFL. He caught 3 touchdown passes against Philadelphia in the NFC Championship game...in the first half.
4: Bruce Springsteen is playing halftime. Odds are even that he'll play Born in the USA, but only 18-1 hell play Badlands, which is too bad cause I like Badlands.
3: Cards backup QB Matt Leinart is just as likely to throw a pass in this game as he is to throw back a beer bong in the hot tub.
2: Commercials will cost 3 million dollars per 30-second spot. Breaking news...while they can be a little funny, nobody really cares.
and the number one thing to know about tonight's Super Bowl
1: If you aint having a party, you aint watching the Super Bowl the way it should be watched.
I got the Steelers...21-17...who ya got?
Heres a top 10 list of things you need to know about the big game:
10: The Pittsburgh Steelers are playing the Arizona Cardinals...I figure we should start with the basics.
9: The Steelers have won 5 Super Bowls, their sixth would be more than any other team in history. The Cardinals have never won a super bowl and last won a football championship in 1947 when the team was the Chicago Cardinals.
8: That is the second longest championship drought in the history of sports, only behind the 100+ year wait of the Chicago Cubs.
7: The Steelers are favoured to win by 7 points....Alex Ovechkin is -210 to collect more points in his game today than The Steelers Willie Parker will have receptions in the super bowl...you can't make this shit up.
6: The Steelers have the number 1 ranked defense in the league, maybe the best defense ever, the NFL's defensive MVP (James Harrison) and probably the best defensive hair (Troy Polamaulu).
5: The Cardinals Larry Fitzgerald already has more receiving yards (419) in his three playoff games this year than any single player has had in any playoff year in the history of the NFL. He caught 3 touchdown passes against Philadelphia in the NFC Championship game...in the first half.
4: Bruce Springsteen is playing halftime. Odds are even that he'll play Born in the USA, but only 18-1 hell play Badlands, which is too bad cause I like Badlands.
3: Cards backup QB Matt Leinart is just as likely to throw a pass in this game as he is to throw back a beer bong in the hot tub.
2: Commercials will cost 3 million dollars per 30-second spot. Breaking news...while they can be a little funny, nobody really cares.
and the number one thing to know about tonight's Super Bowl
1: If you aint having a party, you aint watching the Super Bowl the way it should be watched.
I got the Steelers...21-17...who ya got?
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)